Thanks for staying on top of this, Devildog. I am disgusted at this whole thing; the people should not need protection from the people we hire to protect us. Shots should never have been fired in this case. And if the cops are going to lie about it, come up with something better than "It was too windy to do anything else." Pathetic.

I am interested in this story for more than the Marine connection. I am afraid that the only reason we here about this story is because Jason was a Marine. Had he been an actual thug, this misbehavior by the Scottsdale PD wouldn't have made a ripple. But, as a Marine, I am pissed that the cops didn't do everything they could to diffuse the situation. Cops tend to think of everyone as a career criminal, not just a citizen having a bad day (or week, or year). I hope the shooter in this case gets life or longer, and the other six get 5-10 for obstruction, and possibly perjury.

I have signed up for your posts, but please keep us informed. After the initial furor, these things tend to fade. I'd like to help fan the flames.

James,

"It was too windy to use our tasers, so we shot him."

Pathetic, and if you call that professional, you have a screw loose. The proper lie would be, "After exhausting every possible alternative, we were forced to exercise deadly force." But your buddies the cops can't use that line, because Jason's actions AT NO TIME warranted the use of deadly force. Therefore, the use of deadly force was in fact a crime.

The use of deadly force is only warranted when a human life is in imminent danger. Had the victim been pointing a gun at the police, deadly force would have been warranted. Had he been beating a human officer with a pool cue, deadly force would have been warranted. Had he actually been in the act of holding a knife to the throat of someone, deadly force would have been warranted. He was doing none of these things. Therefore, Officer Bayne committed murder when he chose to fire on Prostrollo. It is absolutely a black and white issue.

As for a time limit to call for an outside investigation, the standard should be an outside investigation is required for every time police are involved in a shooting. Letting a police force investigate itself is an invitation to cover up. If that insults your delicate sensibilities, you are not very grounded in reality.

James,

First things first. Scottsdale PD spokeman created a lot of concern with the statement that were made. After all the publicity with Tasers it is easy to find information on them. Based upon the information I have read, it would have taken about .02 seconds for the Taser to hit Sgt. Postrollo, the wind affecting it sound suspicious if not ridiculous to most people. I can understand pepper spray not being deployed if there was any unfavorable wind. The dog was employed, how long did the was the dog allowed to work before deadly force was deemed necessary? Other than the generic threatening behavior, exactly what behavior did Sgt. Postrollo engage in that warranted deadly force? As I understand it there were six or seven officers present. Was going hands on ever considered? One simple plan I employed several times in similar situations was one person was assigned to each arm or leg, one person was designated to tackle the person, one person designated to handcuff him. It might be ugly, but I worked for me. Worst anyone was hurt minor scrapes. What was the cognitive thought process or plan for the use of force? The report would sure clear up some of these questions. Was this incident video taped?

Making statements without releasing facts creates more questions than answer. I understand that the investigation will take time, but if that is the case, don't make any statements or excuses, like the wind was blowing. Scottsdale PD wouldn't be the first agency to have another agency investigate an officer involved shooting. Suggesting a third party is not an insult to me. Bring it on, if you did the right thing, your decisions will hold up. The added benefit to it is that fact that it was a third party, not the agency, that declares your actions as justified.

Remember, the Supreme Court gave law enforcement a gift with Graham v. Connor. That is the case that said that an officer's decision to use force cannot be judged with 20/20 hindsight. Force must be looked at through the eyes of a reasonable officer in the same situation with the understand that the situation is tense, uncertain, dangerous and rapidly evolving. This is the standard that will be used I assume. Again, if they didn't do anything wrong, what difference does it make who investigates. The truth is the truth. By the way, if you can't quote the findings in the Graham case, you need some remedial training, all my officers were required to as part of the FTO program.

Just so you know, Mr. Gagic is prohibited from soliciting to represent the Postrollo family to represent them. So he doesn't have a need to get a jump on a law suit. But for the sake of arguement, if a member of your family was the victim of a bad police shooting, would you want to wait or hire an attorney who waited?

Never once did I see Mr. Gagic wrap himself in the Marine Corp flag in that blog. That attack was petty and personal. I have worked with him on several cases. He is a man of honor and integrity. He pulls no punches and takes no shortcuts. This is the attorney I would want representing me I my life was on the line.

Many years ago a police publication used to review and critique police shooting. There was always a disclaimer before the articles that said, while it may seem distateful to critique the actions of the officers involved, it is necessary to do so to prevent future mistakes and save lives. Those articles took some brutally hard looks at some cases. Law enforcement learned from the mistakes of others, like Newhall, Miami FBI shoot-out, or the North Hollywood case. Changes in tactis, training, and weapons were made as a result. Not everything that is good for us it pleasant to here, but it might be true. Yes, I know I need to loose weight. Not pleasant, but I would be better off if I did. Police work is in the public eye more and more, you need to adjust to the ever increasing scrutiny. Good work will always stand up to review.

As to the release of the report, I understand it may still be under investigation, but they made statements that the public easily challenged and Scottsdale's spokesmen created consequently created their own problems. Here is another advantage to an outside agency doing the investigation, they take the heat on that issue.

Just so you know, I was a Chief for 21 years. I was a firearms instructor, (handgun, shotgun, patrol rifle, sub-gun, and tactical handgun) FATS instructor, and defensive tactics instructor. I did not just have those certications I taught them regularly. I have had to make a few tough decisions under pressure too.

Never once have I read a comment from Mr. Gagic that justifies or rationalizes Sgt. Prostollo actions that led to the police being called.

One last thing I will say about Mr. Gagic. He can't do the one thing he would like to do. He can't bring Sgt. Prostollo back for his family.